Mic'd Up: Holden discussed Reyna's move to Gladbach, Pochettino's evolving tactics and nation set to be 'consumed by the World Cup'
While their situations aren't identical, Stu Holden can relate to what Gio Reyna has gone through over the past few years.
The retired U.S. international rose to prominence in MLS with the Houston Dynamo, winning two MLS Cups, before parlaying that into a move to the Premier League with Bolton Wanderers. After struggling to initially find a fit, Holden rose to prominence with Bolton in his second year, becoming the team's player of the season, despite what was ultimately a career-changing injury.
Reyna didn't have the severity of injuries that Holden encountered, but the setbacks did ultimately impact his status at Dortmund – prompting his eventual move to Gladbach. When Holden was recovering from a fractured femur, there was a lot of noise about what he should do next – similar to Reyna. Holden refused to let outside chatter impact his decision.
"Even when I was coming back for injury, if I didn't play in a game, I was the guy that went out at that same stadium, and I did runs, and I did work with the fitness coach by myself, and I was doing every little thing to prove or just to consistently remind my coach that I needed to be in the lineup and I needed to be playing." Holden told GOAL. "I respect him for ignoring the noise and saying, I’m going to find the best situation for me in Europe, and I’m not done here yet."
Reyna found a fresh start at Gladbach, but the turbulence continued when the club sacked manager Gerardo Seoane just a day after the midfielder's debut. It's another reset, and he will now have to prove himself to a seventh manager – club and national team – since the 2022 World Cup. Holden, now an analyst with FOX Sports, wants the 22-year-old to persevere.
"I hope that Gio is viewing it through the same lens of not getting discouraged and then continuing to push and do everything that he can do to be ready for that moment, to meet that moment when it comes," he said. "He started at the weekend, so clearly they feel that he's a player who can contribute. And now you got to do that and prove it all over again to that coach.
"My advice to him would be, continue to flip your mindset to be like… 'I'm enjoying this challenge, and this is going to make me better as a player. It's going to toughen my mentality. And I know I have that ability.'"
With the Champions League kicking off this week, Holden is also eager to see how Malik Tillman and Johnny Cardoso handle bigger roles at Bayer Leverkusen and Atletico Madrid, respectively. He's also concerned that Christian Pulisic isn’t playing in Europe’s top competition and that Yunus Musah appears to be stagnating.
Holden discussed all of that and his optimism for Mauricio Pochettino and the USMNT in the latest edition of Mic'd Up, a recurring feature in which GOAL taps into the perspective of broadcasters, analysts, and other pundits on the state of soccer in the U.S. and abroad.
Getty Images SportON THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
GOAL: The Champions League kicked off this week. Which Americans are you most excited to see in this tournament?
HOLDEN: I'm super excited about two players in particular. First, would Atletico's Johnny Cardoso. He's injured this week, but for the course of the Champions League season, I think he can really develop and become a big player. And just as I've always said about the U.S. pool in general, I think the more players we have that are playing in big matches and meaningful matches against big teams, it progresses those players. It helps them feel less pressure and big moments for the U.S… When I look at the other national teams that we play, whether that's Argentina or England – like England's players, for example, all of these guys are playing ultimately, in the end, at like the quarterfinal, semifinals, finals of a Champions League. The same for Spain. Every single season, they have a team that is in the final. And these guys are just used to playing big matches.
So, they're going to step on the field at a World Cup, and that game is not going to feel as big as it actually is. I think the sad thing is, we're actually probably down in numbers compared to the season in the past for our guys playing in the Champions League. The second is PSV's Ricardo Pepi. Seeing him in the Champions League last year, and having a really good season and scoring a number of goals, it really gave him a ton of confidence as a player. And that's what I want from a striker. And I look at the striker position on the USMNT, we have Folarin Balogun playing in the Champions League, and so is Pepi. So in essence, our two best strikers, who will be competing nose-to-nose for the starting position. So they're playing in these big matches on big nights. I think it's a really big bonus for the U.S. team.
GOAL: Which American player do you see going furthest in this competition?
HOLDEN: Likely Cardoso with Atletico Madrid. But I want to make a note on Malik Tillman. Hehad a big transfer in the offseason and is now at Bayer Leverkusen. I think he's going to play a big role for his team. One of the really fascinating things for me with Tillman in the Gold Cup was that it was his first real opportunity without Pulisic, without Weston McKennie, without Time Weah, to show that he could be a guy that can shoulder more responsibility. And he stepped up. And he delivered in a big way, and I thought he was the best player throughout the tournament, with Chris Richards.
So now you make a big transfer to Bayer Leverkusen, and now it's another step at the club level for him to push forward. And there's pressure that comes with that transfer fee [reported at $41 million]. There's pressure that comes with a new team. There's pressure with a new coach, and now a second new coach already for him in a short time. So for him to once again, find it within himself to show that he's capable of handling that pressure and delivering and being a dog and like settling into a new environment really quickly. How you do that is you deliver on big nights. And so that's going to be pretty fascinating.
AdvertisementGetty Images SportON CHRISTIAN PULISIC
GOAL: On the other end of all of this is the fact that Christian Pulisic, who has done well in the Champions League before, is not playing because Milan didn't qualify. What are your thoughts?
HOLDEN: It's an unfortunate step back for Pulisic. It's part of the reality at times of European competition at the highest level. And as great as he has been for Milan over his past two seasons, now it's a team that's been in transition and has really been underachieving, so that puts a little bit more pressure in a different way for him to almost get Milan back into the Champions League. But I do think that's detrimental to his level that he could be playing at, because you're not playing in these big games and big nights throughout the season. That's where we saw him take a big couple of steps forward these past couple of years is that he was consistently playing in these games.
His level was so high, and then he brought that to the national team, and he brings it with Milan. It's a bummer for Pulisic, and I think if Milan were not to qualify for the Champions League again for next season, he would be looking to make a move because he's a player who wants to be playing Champions League soccer every year – and he's earned that right. I would say that, in another way, maybe the positive spin on it is for him is that there's pressure from the outside, from a league standpoint, and that every game is that much more meaningful for them to maintain a level of consistency. To be picking up points on a consistent basis, to get back into the Champions League. Because every single year, success or failure for Milan is judged on whether they're in the Champions League or not.
GOAL: It's funny you mentioned that point about his future, as another former U.S. international Brad Friedel said something similar. Should he be considering his future there, with all of the instability at the club?
HOLDEN: It's one of these interesting situations, right? Throughout his career, outside of Dortmund, he had a lot of instability. At Chelsea, he was in and out of the lineup and new coaches, and you saw that then have an impact on his a fitness because you're not in a routine and a rhythm of playing games. His happiness and his confidence weren't quite there, and that's why the Milan move has been just a total knockout success from an individual standpoint for him. He's been able to rediscover that joy of playing. And so you're constantly treading that line of like, "Well, am I challenging myself enough? Am I playing at the highest level possible? Am I still in a place where I'm valued in the same type of way?"
And how important is that, versus then, leaving a club again, to go to some of these top teams – when you're at these top teams, they end up carrying squads of 25-30 players that are all top level internationals that maybe you're not playing every single week and you're competing, but you're in a squad rotation. And so all of these things now are part of the modern game, but he's a player that we all know is capable of playing for a team in the top four of any league in Europe. And so I do think if, let's say, Milan don't make the Champions League again next year, I would be, as Christian Pulisic, thinking about wanting to make a move. You want to make sure you're playing Champions League every possible season if you're a guy at Pulisic's level.
Getty Images SportON GIO REYNA
GOAL: Sticking with guys in Europe, what did you make of Reyna finally getting a fresh start at Gladbach, making his debut, and then seeing his manager get sacked the next day?
HOLDEN: Talk about a guy who has had instability the past couple of seasons, joins a new club, is excited, and then his coach gets fired the next day. He’s at a point in his career where he has to prove himself. Gio knows he has talent, but he might look in the mirror and doubt his ability to deliver consistently and stay healthy after such turbulence. It’s important for him to dig deep, focus on his performances, and integrate into a new team. Once again, he has to earn it with a new coach, earn respect within a new team, and earn playing time. To succeed in Europe, you need consistency over a longer period, and that’s what will get him back with the national team.
He said recently he’s in contact with Pochettino and believes if he finds rhythm, he’ll return to the group. His talent isn’t in doubt, but questions about his attitude on and off the field have lingered. From the outside, it seems he recognizes that and knows the opportunity in front of him. There’s no bigger carrot than a home World Cup, and that’s surely part of why he signed with Gladbach instead of going to Italy. Maybe it felt more familiar and offered a better chance at minutes. But when you’re on a team under pressure – they fired their coach – you won’t get many chances if you don’t deliver. The stakes remain high for Gio.
GOAL: During the summer, there was a lot of talk that Reyna should have strongly considered MLS because he would be essentially guaranteed minutes. What did you make of his decision to ultimately stay in Europe?
HOLDEN: I don’t view MLS as a huge step backwards in your career. When I played four years in MLS and made the move to Europe, once I was established and playing every week in the Premier League against Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal – I would have loved to stay there my entire career. It was me living out my dream, playing at the highest level. And once you get a taste of that, you don’t want to give it up. So I understand from Gio’s perspective why he still felt like this is where I want to be.
I respect him for ignoring the noise and saying, I’m going to find the best situation for me in Europe, and I’m not done here yet. I don’t think it would have been retreating or the end of his journey if he wanted to continue in Europe, even if he came back on a year’s loan to MLS. In many ways, I actually did that as a 19-year-old. I went to Europe with Sunderland, and after an unfortunate incident on the streets of Newcastle, I came back to MLS. Then I put myself in a position to return to Europe in better standing with the national team, and with more confidence to play at a higher level.
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AFPON SERGINO DEST
GOAL: Outside of all the Americans we discussed, any others you want to give a shoutout to in Europe?
HOLDEN: I’ve been so happy for Sergiño Dest coming back from the ACL injury. Having been through a couple myself, I give the USMNT staff and Pochettino a ton of credit because they brought him into camp before the Gold Cup, quickly recognized he wasn’t ready, and pulled back. That’s the hardest thing for a player to accept. He had played a few minutes at the end of the season, but the intensity of national team games in quick succession is different. It was smart to treat it as a long-term play. Those extra months of ACL-specific training helped him stop second-guessing himself on the ball, his cuts, and his movements. You can see that now, even in the last camp – he was moving freely.
He played with confidence. I thought he looked great in the first 60 minutes versus South Korea, and when he came off the bench against Japan, he looked electric on the left-hand side. That’s what excites me about him – he’s not afraid to try things. Starting the season well with PSV and playing in the Champions League again makes him such an important player for the U.S. He’s a difference-maker who can beat guys off the dribble and create chances – that’s so valuable in today’s game. And if we’re going to keep playing this back three/back five system, which I’ve been calling for, it hinges on Dest and Antonee Robinson being effective on the flanks. They make that formation work. It’s a really good sign for him and the U.S. that he’s off to a strong start.